Fire up those disco ball motors! Austin soul project Sir Woman just the announced two new records If It All Works Out and If It Doesn’t, both set for release some time in 2024. Ahead of a two-night stand at The Parish on Saturday, July 20th and Sunday, July 21st, Sir Woman creator, chief songwriter, and lead singer, Kelsey Wilson sat down with Song of the Day Producer Jack Anderson to chat about the dual release, keeping things separate from Wild Child, and her mindset around recent successes.
Listen to the full interview or read the edited transcript below.
KUTX: There’s new stuff from Sir Woman. Let’s just get straight to it. It’s two albums. And the albums are called If It All Works Out and If It Doesn’t. These are going to be dropping later this year and we’ll be hearing some new singles from both of the records coming out every month. So first and foremost, why two albums?
Kelsey Wilson: Well, when I started writing a new Sir Woman album, it was right at the beginning of a bunch of stuff happening in my life, like crazy, traumatic, weird, scary stuff. I started writing the album and recording. And then I lost a sister and then my dad passed. And then I felt like I became a different person before that album was even done. So it just felt like going back to try to finish the album, I was like, “I don’t identify with a lot of this music right now.” I feel completely different just as an artist and a human being and I have a lot to process. And so I just kind of set that album aside, was like, “you know what, it is done, and I can just put it right there to breathe for a second. But there is a whole other body of work I need to make right now.”
And my initial thought was I was going to write a couple more songs and then just kind of pick from this big group of music and make one big super album. But I ended up writing a whole second record and there was no way for me to pick between these songs and just turn it into one thing because it was like two different versions of myself. So I just kind of was like, “screw this. I’m putting out two.” I know that it’s still tough right now; songs are getting shorter, people’s attention spans are shorter. It’s more about two minute songs and playlists and people don’t listen to albums anymore. And I’m like, “yeah, I’m just going to make two long albums, long songs, and the people that need it and the people that identify with it…well it’s for them.” Really just I had to do it that way.
KUTX: Historically, a lot of times artists will go into a kind of writing frenzy. They make a huge album, like you said, something where it’s like twenty, thirty songs or whatever. Then they gotta go down and cut some stuff down. With this one did it feel a lot more organic, just having it split in that way, and just being able to say, “well, this was where my mindset was at for this project; that feels like a complete thing”?
KW: Yeah, they both just felt so separate to me the whole time. One of my favorite quotes that has gotten me through the past couple of years is literally, “if it works out, great. If it doesn’t, even better.” Like, we don’t know the bigger plan. It’s always going to be okay, ultimately.
And just kind of the peace that comes with that mindset. And it’s not that one album is really sad and one album is really happy. There are both positive and negative energies behind both albums, because we’re human and there’s ebbs and flows to every experience. But just my own mindset behind one album and the other was so different. I don’t even know if the listener will be able to tell. But I could feel it so fully that I was just like, “you can’t put that over there. And that doesn’t go over there. And I didn’t even agree with that sentiment anymore. And this just didn’t work.” It was like, these are two separate things and they’re actually going to come with an emotion chart and a sixty-nine mood ring. So you put the mood ring on and the color that it changes to will tell you what album you need to listen to.
KUTX: Whoa. That’s pretty cool. So if you had to, is there an easy way to kind of define which one is which? Like what is If It All Works Out versus If It Doesn’t?
KW: Well, you’ll tell by If It All Works Out it’s the first one I made and it’s all yellows and reds and oranges and pinks and it’s a little more lighthearted. A little more along the lines of original Sir Woman, where it’s all just self love and expression and lifting each other up and feeling good, having a good time. “Party City”, here we go.
And then If It Doesn’t…it’s still uplifting, but it’s coming from a darker place. I think as an artist I had obviously experienced a lot more. And so there was more…I’m not going to say desperation behind it, but it was like…I really needed to get back to that place where I felt I could celebrate life and celebrate community and love and joy. So, instead of it just being like, “this is a party song, let’s all have a good time”, it was like, “everything’s scary, I know that, but I love you, let’s all have a good time”. So the message is still the same, it’s just the force behind it. And If It Doesn’t, it’s all blues, purples, greens, like darker, moodier, beautiful colors. But it’s all still positive music.
KUTX: So we’re about half a decade down the line from when Sir Woman kicked off, right? That was like late 2010s?
KW: Yeah, 2019…obviously pandemic. I was gonna drop “Party City” literally the week that the lockdown happened. And it was just like, “pull the cord. Don’t do that. Read the room.” So, that just put a damper on things for a while. But it was all exactly, “if it works out great, if it doesn’t, even better.”
KUTX: So now half a decade down the line from when you started. Inspirations, messages, lyrical content aside, do you feel like your songwriting formulas have matured? Or do you feel like it’s kind of that same, from five years ago, out the gate, just kind of a fresh look at music outside of Wild Child perspective?
KW: It has changed so much. I think the biggest difference with these albums compared to the EP and the first album is I didn’t have a band then. I had been writing these songs while I was on the road with Wild Child and I knew they needed to belong in a different world. And I didn’t have a band. I didn’t plan on playing live. I just knew I needed to get these sounds out of my head and make a record, whatever happened.
So I was just kind of getting together the players that I knew would like this music and would want to just have this adventure with me. Since then, it was kind of like a Field of Dreams “if you build it, they will come” type situation. Once I started making those albums, the players just kind of appeared and everyone was down and wanted to play live. And they liked the music and we loved creating together.
So [with] these two albums. It’s the first time I was able to make Sir Woman with the people I have been Sir Woman with. So it’s a lot more like the live show. When I go back and listen to the first album, it just sounds completely different and bizarre to me because we weren’t a thing yet. And now, we’ve been a family for like five years and we finally get to record and write together. It feels like a whole different beast. And I love it so much. A lot of co-writes with band members on these albums too, which I’m very excited about.
KUTX: Which leads me to my next question. With the Sir Woman family with the other band members, I was listening to one of these lead singles, “Who You Gonna Love”? It’s got a real Burt Bacharach swanky ’60s vibe, and especially I hear that flute on there with the arrangement. Are you a very arrangement-oriented person or has this been kind of a huge burden for you to give to the other players where they can kind of relish in their strong spots and fill out the arrangement with their instrumental strengths and tastes?
KW: Until these albums I have been so precious about it. A lot of people don’t know this, but I actually started as a classical violinist and my first fifteen years of music were playing classical violin. So I had a very specific ear for what I wanted arrangement-wise. And I was very in control of everything and what was happening in the studio. With the first Sir Woman album I was definitely like that because I just spent ten years with Wild Child and the whole thing was, “I want to know what I sound like.” If I get to make every decision and not worry about hurting my friend’s feelings or leaving anybody out. Or like Wild Child was such a close knit family that I cared more about everyone’s emotions than I did about getting a song exactly how I was thinking in my head. So it’s just like, “no, I have to control everything for this.” But since then, now that I have this giant, moving, evolving Sir Woman family. And they’re all such heavy hitters, and a lot of them have come from the Wild Child world with me, like Sterling who arranged all the brass and that song you’re speaking about.
Everyone’s such a secret weapon, that it was really fun for me to actually have days in the studio where like, “you know what, Spice and Roy are doing vocals; I’m just not gonna go.” I’m not gonna sit there and tell them what I’m thinking, because I know for a fact that what they come up with is gonna be way cooler. So I’m just going to let them do it and then I’m going to show up at the end of the day and be like, “whoa, that’s crazy.” I let a lot more of that happen on these albums. It definitely helped with the energetic weight of a lot of the songs. I wouldn’t even share exactly what I was working through when I wrote it or the heaviness of it. So being able to just hand that heaviness to somebody that I love and respect and admire and they could take it and kind of just add more love, it just made it a much more powerful thing for me.
KUTX: You mentioned that one of the biggest separations between Wild Child and Sir Woman is this idea of, “what can I do on my own? How can I do this on my own?” This is not to say that Wild Child is defunct at all; Wild Child dropped ‘End of the World’ last March. How do you balance that kind of inspiration and songwriting for Wild Child versus Sir Woman? Is it something where Wild Child’s more like you and Alex [Beggins – Ukulele/Vocals], that’s the machine, and Sir Woman is just straight up you? Or are there times where you’ll start on what might be a Wild Child song and then halfway through you’re like, “you know what?“
KW: That’s definitely happened. There’s been some times where I’ll be like, “this can be Wild Child.” And then we’ll start working on it and I’ll be like, “damn, that maybe should have been Sir Woman.” And the same thing, I’ll start with something with Sir Woman and be like, “you know what? Actually Alexander would have had a really cool take on this.” So I still I mess it up because I am both of those things.
I’m not more one than the other. But I think now it’s a lot more obvious to me when I start writing a piece, it’ll just kind of be like, “all right, this is an emotional sentiment that I need to finish by myself, or this is a love song that I need a homie to help me finish.” Now there’s such a clear line for me that it’s not confusing anymore. And Zandi has his own project too now. And it’s funny when you listen to CoCo Zandi and Sir Woman, it literally is like Wild Child deconstructed. And you can hear both of our influences and how we make decisions artistically. I’m so stoked for him and I love his music as well, so it’s a beautiful thing.
KUTX: With Wild Child I think of that turn of the 2010s. That era ten-fifteen years ago where indie folk was like… everything.
KW: Dude. Wild Child exists because it was like a weird fluke. Right time right place. We were a girl-boy group. There was a ukulele. I remember people giving like reviews of shows like if you love The Head and the Heart or if you love Edward Sharp or whatever, you’ll love Wildchild. We were like the affordable Head and the Heart for college radio stations. But yeah, you’re right. That was a whole time period.
KUTX: So the difference between then and now, just like the past couple years, the late 2010s, right when Sir Woman started in 2019. There’s groups like Black Pumas with your colleague, your Glorietta bandmate Adrian Quesada in there. Do you feel like we’re in the middle of like a retro soul renaissance?
KW: We are. And I really feel like it’s been an accident both times. Like I was only making ukulele folk music because Alexander had a ukulele and it could fit in a tour bus and that was the instrument that would fit in the row that we were sitting. So I wasn’t like, “let’s make a ukulele album. Let’s do a girl boy cute thing.” I was stuck in the same row of a van with a guy who had a ukulele. And then it just happened.
And with this, I was like, “I need to go find my sound. What do I listen to? Funk, soul, R&B, gospel.” That’s actually the music I was raised on. I had just been making folk music professionally and it was just an accident. And then I started and yeah, Pumas and Thee Sacred Souls and Tank and the Bangas…all these like really cool, beautiful groups are finally getting the attention that they have always deserved.
I’m very happy. It feels like there’s a resurgence of real, which is just soul. It’s just a different…it’s not so electronic anymore. You can hear mistakes in songs again, which I love. I always leave those. I take my scratch vocals every time. You can hear people talking in the background. You can hear me miss a note. Somebody drops a tambourine. I keep it all because that’s it’s that genre that I love the most. I’m so happy it’s back.
KUTX: And speaking of all those kind of influences and upbringings that you mentioned like funk, soul, and gospel. Let’s say somebody has never listened to Sir Woman. What genres do you even say that it is? Is it just “soul”?
KW: I don’t know. And I remember when I first started shopping Sir Woman around, every label said the same thing. They were like, “we don’t know where to put this.” They’d be like, “we love it, but we don’t know where it goes.” And for me, I was like, “that’s kind of cool.” I’m okay if you can’t fit it in an exact box because it is kind of pop. It’s R&B, it’s soul, and you can definitely hear church in there as well.
Yeah, I’m okay with that, but I’ve always been told that it’s a negative thing. But I think that’s just they don’t know how to sell it because they can’t just put it in this formula that they know is gonna work, because you sound just like Lake Street Dive or you sound just like whatever. I don’t know. We’ll just say soul. Soul is right.
KUTX: Some people have drawn comparisons to Amy Winehouse with you. That kind of jazz-soul tightrope. Do you have any specific vocalists that you look to? Have you ever tried to emulate a vocalist? Or has it always just kind of been the Kelsey Wilson voice of Wild Child, now, with a different kind of polish on it?
KW: This answer horrifies real singers, but I am not a singer. I don’t consider myself a singer. I sing because I write music. Singing makes me happy, but I don’t do vocal warm ups. I don’t drink water. I am so bad at it. And in fact, I just sing how I think the song should be sung.
I just sing the song. And now, and this is not a dig at myself at all…I literally am the worst singer in Sir Woman. Every single player in my band has the most insane pipes. So at this point, if I’m not emulating, but if my game has been stepped up at all, it’s just because I’m fronting the most insane vocalists ever. The drummer, the key player, the bass player, Spice and Roy, all of them are so talented and their voices are insane. So I’m just trying to be worthy of fronting this choir. But yeah, no. I’m not even a singer. I just write.
KUTX: I think some people might disagree with that. (laughs)
KW: I don’t know. I don’t know. It just feels like an accident. Like, I think everybody sings. I think everyone’s in it but they do their warm ups and they know their tricks and they can do runs. But I’m not doing any runs. I’m just like, either yelling at people…I’m just yelling at people. That’s what it feels like. Yelling at people with love. It doesn’t feel like singing.
KUTX: Sir Woman’s got great streaming numbers. I was just looking on Spotify and it’s in the millions for some songs, just standalone songs. How do you measure success? Is it streaming numbers? Is it concert tickets sold? Is there some sort of other metric? Do you even care?
KW: That’s a really great question. Actually one of my bandmates, Jon Deas, was literally asking me what I would want more: a Grammy or a Platinum record. And first of all, Platinum records…I don’t even know what they mean anymore. Because I do have songs or albums that [on] streaming technically they are Platinum. Like they have been listened to that many times. And people don’t have CD players anymore and a lot of people don’t have record players. And in order to get a Grammy, you have to pay to be a part of the Grammy. So like, it’s a gross, slimy industry that I am just not built for. So I feel like I used to just want the Grammy. Like, that’s it. I want to be acknowledged. At least for being a writer. And now success just means being able to reach the people that need whatever it is I’m making. It just matters so much.
And the people that I’m able to work with and meet because of what I’m creating keep getting cooler and cooler. So it’s more of like a creative endeavor. Like I just want to keep making stuff and I want it to get better and better. I’m not going to say the audience matters less now because it’s really like the connection of the audience that keeps the music going. I think it’s the accolades that I don’t necessarily even know what they mean anymore, so it’s hard to aspire to them.
But there’s this video of Carole King getting inducted into the Hall of Fame and Aretha Franklin comes out and sings “Natural Woman” to Carole King and stands up and gives her a standing ovation. And I remember like from a very young age, “I want to be Carole King. I want to be the woman sitting in the audience, not performing. But I wrote that song that this artist brought to life and is singing at me. I don’t want to be everything. I don’t need to do that. I want to be Carole. I want to sit in the balcony and I want to watch it happen and I just want to feel that love.”
So I think that’s just always been my top tier. So I guess it’s more about the working with people, the creating together and for each other and the art itself at this point.
KUTX: Later this month, you’re going to be playing at The Kennedy Center and then early August, you’ll be at The Newport Folk Festival. Was this always part of the plan? Were these gigs kind of like recent surprises in terms of your standing?
KW: The Kennedy Center is a surprise and it’s beautiful. A lot of the bandmates are from D.C. so to get to go back to their hometown and play The Kennedy Center is really special. It’s always like a second hometown show. Newport Folk…Glorietta was kind of a Newport Folk super band, like we made it for that festival. And Wild Child’s played Newport. So I’ve always loved that festival just for the camaraderie. Like seeing the other bands and hanging out. It feels like the high school cafeteria of touring bands. Plus the weather’s amazing and the artist lounge has like oysters and lobster rolls unlimited. It is bougie, which you’re not used to on the road. You’re pretty dirty and broke and tired. And then you get to the coast and there’s oysters and champagne and everyone is in white denim and they look amazing. And it’s a very cool kid hang that I always have mad, massive imposter syndrome at, but I love it.
Getting Sir Woman there was really important for me because it is a folk festival. But I do come from that folk Americana world and Sir Woman does have elements of that. And I do think Newport could be spiced up a little bit because it is a lot of the same genres all day and people playing the same John Prine covers. I mean, it’s John Prine. It’s amazing. Like, he was there one year, I was there before he passed and we all sang with him and I wept and it was amazing. But then like five years in a row, you’re like, “I want to change this up. I want to stir this festival up a little bit and have a good time. I’m going to convince them to let Sir Woman come, even though it’s a little different than their normal lineup.” And last year they had like Jon Batiste and Thee Sacred Souls and I was like, “all right so now we fit. Let us in.” And they did and I’m very excited and honored to go back and share this party with them.
KUTX: Yeah, moving the needle a little bit on sonic variety…you’re not gonna be like the ’60s Bob Dylan controversy making everybody weep because there’s electric instruments.
KW: No, it’ll be great. I think it’ll be a welcome party out there.
KUTX: You’re such a traveled person. You’ve spent so much time on the road touring with your various projects. Has any of that influenced your decision to stick around Austin…or maybe not?
KW: I mean I’m from here, born and raised so I still have family here, grandparents here, sisters and who live five minutes away from me and nephews and nieces. And because I spent so much time on the road it didn’t really feel like I’ve been living in Austin my whole life. Feels more like I’ve been living in a twelve-passenger van for my adult life. And Austin really still feels like the best place to be for music. I mean, we have health insurance and SIMS and all these things built in. Where you go to other cities and build other relationships with bands in other cities and kind of talk about Austin and what we have set up and they’re always like, “what? You get dental budget, you get this, you get whatever.” It was like, “yeah, we do.” Like, Austin does take care of us in that way. And you really can play gigs all the time. Whereas if you’re in L. A. or New York, you have to be more selective, like, you can’t play too often.
Even if I would like to, at some point live somewhere else in my life. It’s still the best place for me to be. And the creative community here is so welcoming. Like we’ve all known each other for so long and anybody could call me anytime and be like, “I want you to sing on the song.” Or, “will you play some violin?” Or, “will you help me with harmonies?” Or, “do you want to write together?” It doesn’t feel like we have any competitive energy, which I definitely feel in Nashville and L. A. and New York, like it’s a lot more cutthroat. And there’s only so many people who can make it to the top. And I just don’t feel like that exists here. And I could just be lucky enough that my community is that open and welcoming.
But the people that I started with, we still make things together. And the energy has just kind of always been like, “if they win, I win.” Like, there’s plenty to go around. And if a band from Austin makes it out and makes it big, then we’re all just kind of proud. And that’s a beautiful thing. That definitely keeps me here.
KUTX: So while you’re still here…how does Kelsey Wilson stay cool in the Austin summer?
KW: Stay inside, bro. It’s horrible. I try to go swimming every day. But, you know, it’s pretty crowded now. And I’m super far south. I’m like Old Austin south. I got a cowboy tub. I’ll go to the gas station, buy like twelve bags of ice, put it in the cowboy tub, just sit in it.
Or there’s a sauna also. So another trick to staying cool when it’s one hundred degrees out is getting in a box that’s like two hundred degrees. And then when you walk out, you’re like, “you know what? Not so bad. Not so bad.” But yeah, I don’t know. It’s tough now.
KUTX: …so the sauna.
KW: The sauna actually does help, which is crazy. Or just go sit in your car and don’t turn it on for like thirty minutes. And then when you get out, the air won’t feel so bad.
KUTX: I think between that and you saying that you don’t drink water, your mileage may vary. (laughs)
KW: That’s very true. But again, I’m from here, so I may be a little dangerously comfortable in the heat.
KUTX: What does a disco ball taste like?
KW: A mirror! You never got dared as a teenager to make out with yourself in a mirror? I feel like that’s a pretty common experience. And if it isn’t, then I’m really gonna freak some people out right now. But it tastes like a mirror. Or a window, you know, you smash your face on some glass to greet a friend as we do as adults. That’s what it tastes like.
KUTX: So is that a personal disco ball? Do you cycle through a few different ones to keep the flavor fresh…or?
KW: I have acquired so many disco balls, people give them to me now. I bought so many for a music video. I gave birth to a disco ball head baby. “Party City” was like a land that I made up that was in my body, so I hold “Party City” in me. And that’s how I was able to birth a disco ball head child. So I’ve been given many, many disco balls. They’re all over my house. I don’t know what to do with them, but I love them. It’s a good problem to have like disco planters. Like people are just like, “ah. You love these things.” I’m like, “okay, it’s forever.” No, I could probably disco ball my whole house.
KUTX: And speaking of giving birth…(laughs) How far ahead do you and Alexander plan out your April Fool’s posts for Wild Child?
KW: You know what’s extra funny? It’s like the day before. Really? We’ll be like, you know what would really mess him up? This. And my sister’s partner owns a tattoo shop. And this time we were like, let’s get face tattoos. Because yeah, we did a proposal. We got pregnant. Wild Child broke up. And then we were like, let’s get face tattoos for this next April Fool’s. And it was pretty good work this time around. Very fun. It’s really him.
He’s the king of April Fool’s. Everybody who knows him will not pick up a phone call from him on that day. He sets an alarm at like 4AM so he can start getting people before they realize what day it is. And I’ve seen him just destroy people over the years. So it’s really his holiday. He’s very very good at it, but we’re definitely pushing the limit of like what’s appropriate. Like I could see us maybe taking it too far at some point.
KUTX: Well, I’ll be totally honest. The face tattoo got me. There was like a hot five minutes where I was like, “those guys are crazy.”
KW: Oh everyone in Sir Woman thought it was real too. Which was so funny because we’re having practice that day and they all showed up and they were like, “Kelsey, turn around. Let me see your face.” I was like, “you think I got the word ‘Wild’ tattooed on my face?” But more importantly, that Alexander got the word ‘Child’ tattooed on his cheek was the funniest thing I could imagine. But like, we’re never around each other unless we’re working. So that means you’re just out in the world with ‘Child’ on your cheek. Yeah, very funny. Yeah, even, bandmates were like, “it seemed like something you would do.” I was like, “really? Well, how? I didn’t know, I didn’t know that I had that reputation, but I’ll take it.”
KUTX: Yeah, I love that. Definitely keep those coming. So, what’s next for Sir Woman?
KW: We’ve got the two new albums coming out – If It All Works Out and If It Doesn’t. Two album release. It’s going to be probably this Fall with a few singles in between then and now we’ve got two shows coming up at The Parish. That’s going to be Saturday, July 20th and Sunday, July 21st.
The first night we’re going to be premiering If It All Works Out and the second night we’re going to premiere If It Doesn’t. So it’ll be the first look at these two albums, but both nights will be completely different openers. We’ll still play some old stuff too, obviously. But yeah, it’ll be two completely different shows and the album will come out sometime this year, but we don’t know when. So this is kind of like your chance to hear it. And you can get the sixty-nine mood ring and you can come kind of like get the sound. We’ll be dropping a single from each album every month starting this month until they come out. I’m so excited. This is like my favorite body of work ever.